Beer Stories: Craft Beer Industry Insights

Founder & CEO of Mixtape Drinks, Chad Mitchell

January 02, 2023 Hosts: Mischa Smith & Alex Violette, Guest: Chad Mitchell Season 1 Episode 3
Beer Stories: Craft Beer Industry Insights
Founder & CEO of Mixtape Drinks, Chad Mitchell
Show Notes Transcript

In Episode 3 of Beer Stories, Alex & Mischa talk to the Founder & CEO of MixTape Drinks, Chad Mitchell, about Beer Styles! Do they even matter anymore?! They discuss the importance of learning the fundamentals of brewing before you can start playing around with style guidelines, inventing new styles of beer, the ubiquity of IPAs in the current craft beer market, style guidelines, the importance of beer styles for marketing purposes, category confusion at beer competitions, Pickle beers, the importance of pushing boundaries & challenging yourself, the beer naming process at MixTape, Sour Beers, Hazy IPAs, and whether Brewers prefer drinking their own beers or other people's. We also have new installments of our weekly segments, The Hangover Check and Fact or Fiction. Cheers! 

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Mischa:

Welcome to Beer Stories It's an ongoing podcast about beers Our producers Niall Mackay of Seven Million Bikes podcast Our theme song was composed and performed by Lewis Wright My name is Misha Smith my co-host to my left as always is Alex Violet

Alex:

Hi everyone

Mischa:

and our guest today Is the CEO of Bana Vietnam the founder CEO and brewmaster of Mix tape drinks And just like Cheryl Crow he likes good beer Buzz early in the morning Mr Chad

Chad:

Mitchell What's there's so many IPAs I hate and so many ipa IPAs I love like the first craft beer that got me excited about beer in general because I always say I hate beer And then the first time I ever had ipa I spit it out for a long time I was a double IPA drinker was that guy and what I want double ipa I want a double ipa I want something big bold monstrous hop overload burns your tongues with the amount of hops one of the ones I found in Texas that was doing something wildly different They've done ranch flavored beer buffalo soft flavored beer

Mischa:

is there a beer style that you really really love to make that's not like your favorite to drink

Alex:

Half of Eisen

Mischa:

How you doing Bud

Chad:

Sheryl Crow?

Mischa:

I just I didn't have that written down Okay It literally occurred to me just before you got here

Chad:

ok I'm glad I remind you of Cheryl

Mischa:

Crow I like a good beer buzz early in the morning It was the lyric more than the

Chad:

Ok I got I got that I got that

Mischa:

we're gonna talk about beer styles cause I know you have a lot of thoughts on the subject Before we get into it we're gonna do our our the hottest new running segment in the podcast business it's called the Hangover Check today's Sunday We're recording on a Sunday Chad how hungover were you this morning

Chad:

barely shockingly I was out drinking until about two something but I didn't have hangover this morning

Mischa:

drinking beer or spirits

Chad:

A little bit of both Some shots too I even had alote que egg shot last night which my first

Mischa:

time I amou

Chad:

and that was how I started the night

Mischa:

lost Can you tell our our listeners outside of Vietnam what belut is and why it's fucking weird that you were shooting it last night

Chad:

uh well yeah it's like a a a slightly the embryo embryotic egg That's Is it pickled I'm sure it's how they prepare it I just know that it's like not fully developed and so with a bones there little you know little soft feathers It's a little weird but I enjoyed it

Alex:

Apparently also a cure for hangovers

Chad:

So maybe that's why don't have hangover today I I beat I beat the curve I started with that and then came back around

Mischa:

I used to just like grab a nice ball of f on the way home to prevent my

Chad:

Yeah not un un ripened

Mischa:

not

Chad:

or un

Mischa:

not fully

Chad:

eggs Luckily it was a it was a quell once so it was really small so I I was dabbling Yeah embryos

Mischa:

Yeah I avoid the embryos when I can

Chad:

I have the thing though I I'll try any food at least once and preferably Twice I learned that for Anthony Bourdain to try everything twice First time shock value blah blah blah Second time you you know learn a bit so I gotta do it again So then maybe never again

Mischa:

Bordain

Chad:

Hundred percent

Mischa:

Alex

Alex:

six point

Mischa:

Okay

Chad:

that's a number

Mischa:

He's very specific No rookie scars And yeah I I didn't really have a hangover today I was saying to you guys I had a big Friday night so Saturday I went home early relaxed I wanted to be sharp for the recording today All right so that's great Let's get into it like I said we're gonna talk about beer styles Yeah So uh again just to set it up I introduced you obviously Chad you're a you're a brewer as well as working in the beer business for a long time And I know you have a lot of thoughts about beer styles So do beer styles even matter anymore

Chad:

I think they do I mean I think I think that beer styles are important to know It's like knowing the fundamentals of cooking and the fundamentals of anything Like you gotta know the basics you gotta understand the science of it But I think now it's kinda like have fun Doesn't not everything has to be categorized I have a huge problem with categorization in general even a science I'm kinda like why do we have to put everything in boxes Like why does that have to be so specific You know

Mischa:

I think that's what we really want to talk

Chad:

Yeah yeah So like I mean the duck build platypus whatever like they're like it's two things So I'm like okay this is why categories don't always work So beer especially I'm like why are we forcing ourselves in these boxes Like just have

Mischa:

fun right So to your point it's important that you learn and know

Chad:

Absolutely Absolutely Or at least along the way you don't have to know'em before but break all the rules you want figure it out But then have some knowledge when you're speaking to other people about any topic you're gonna be in a group of people that you know around beer guys and you're like Oh I'll just wing it Like okay do you know anything about what kind of beer you're making Like you just what you throw salt in there What what's your deal You know I think it's important to like at least have an understanding so you can communicate intelligently once in a while

Mischa:

Right There's a there's a meme going right now around right now with Walter White and and Jesse Pinkman when they first met Jesse's Oh the shit I cook is the bomb The shit you cook is shit

Chad:

Exactly

Mischa:

sorry Alex did you wanna jump in there Okay

Chad:

But yeah to your point I mean I always like when I make a beer I'm like I don't know Like I generally start like Okay a PE base or something and then just have fun with it after that and then kinda goes a different direction I guess fits here that nice Keep All the beers I'm making now are like I try to put some like new style that no one's ever heard of like make up some like Oh this is a new style I call it like a new world p or something Like that's not that's not a thing I'm like like I thought you said New England I'm like never said that

Mischa:

Right I I like that I like the idea of that It was like just put a put a few words together Exactly Like I invented this beer style

Chad:

Exactly And then what if it takes off You're like That was all me

Alex:

Yeah Um from from the brewer's perspective it gets it gets pretty exhausting Like um you know first off you're not just going to brew and change your recipes based off like what somebody wrote in a book right Like 20 years ago about what the flavor should be You're gonna brew the things that that people wanna drink and be creative and it's kind of uh annoying that you have to put that into a box but then I was also thinking of the other side of it like being a customer of beer and then having like a style Like if it's you know you like this certain type of flavor it helps you decide what you might want to try next So I think that's where it gets tricky for me It's like you wanna clearly communicate and like set the expectation of what you're gonna get but at the same time it's like almost It hurts I don't know I don't even know how to finish that Maybe you could finish It I I don't know like uh it it makes you feel like you have to brew things of a certain style and make it taste the same because that's what people are expecting So it's like I I don't think it'd be good to just be like every beer is like I don't know Just try it man Yeah exactly You know like you need to communicate more about what it's gonna be than when you start like defining the styles but then that definition can then like change the way people brew beer And then it's kind of like a negative

Chad:

It's like what people say Why are there so many IPAs in craft beer I'm like that's like saying why is there so much rock music in music I mean rock is a very broad category IPAs are now a very very very broad category They're still the best selling categories cause people tend to go hate them or love them But generally the majority of craft beer drinkers kinda lean towards IPAs Oh I'll have the ipa They go there for that Whatever that might be That imaginative creative style started out started out as and it's gone wildly all over the place but people like Oh but there's only IPAs But I'm like each one of those IPAs is nothing like the rest of'em You know like if you compare peaches and cream and Jasmine two wildly different beers but they're both IPAs like you know So it's like that's how styles like okay good We're in the we're in the general category of rock But some people might say Oh I hate rock music Like well but if you look at what rock categories and Spotify this guy everything from Britney Spears to fricking you know Metallica like you know I mean Britney Spears falls more in pop but she's been classified as rock on certain categories No that's not rock But you know

Alex:

Yeah I I get what you're are you personally a fan of ipa Is that like one of your favorite styles

Chad:

See that's I don't know I like that's again there's so many IPAs I hate and so many ipa IPAs I love like the first craft beer that got me excited about beer in general because I always say I hate beer Like I hated lagers I hated so much And then the first time I ever had ipa I spit it out said What the fuck is up with that I poured it out It's terrible But then the the first crap I actually really started enjoying was Blind Pig and that's a IPA ish from Russian River And I was like Awesome So yes and no we're gonna get any definitive answers on the podcast at all

Mischa:

all today so that's interesting to me that You said your first IPA you ever had you just didn't like Cause I'm I'm trying to think back to like first like I remember the first time I ever had a Guinness and I was just too young and I wasn't ready for it I was like Oh it's thick and heavy and ah and now like I could crush 10 guinnesses in a sitting Like I I love that beer So it's there are some styles I think that you have to get just inclined to and get used to by having it more than once and easing in but yeah And I think you you is a bit of an understatement to say that most craft beer drinkers of lean towards ipss

Chad:

I mean as far as sales numbers go likes like I pay to be the best selling of the category

Mischa:

I'm saying more than 10 more than kind of like at least here in Vietnam like IPA sales are still massive compared to any other style yeah yeah right

Chad:

Yeah Yeah totally

Mischa:

Yeah One of the ones I wanted to bring up is a double ipa So I've seen double IPAs that are lower in alcohol than our flagship regular single ipa Like does that bother you when you see that Do you like Cuz I I don't I don't understand I don't understand the psychology of it I don't understand the marketing Like if you had some massive style that's like really popular and you're like Oh I'll just call it that that's fine But like IPAs tend to sell better than double IPAs I think still So like what's the thinking like what where are we going

Chad:

Hmm I don't know Okay So double IPAs were for a long time I was a double IPA drinker was that guy Like I wanted double IPAs and what I want double ipa I want a double ipa I want something big bold monstrous hop overload burns your tongues with the amount of you know hops on skulls your tongue But

Mischa:

when you're in that mood that's what you

Chad:

want Yeah So I think part of me would be annoyed Like if I was like double IPA and it was like 6.2% I'd like I don't get it you know but but it would annoy me Cause I feel like I'm getting gypped Man That's an American thing right You always like Oh I gotta get our value for our money So I feel like double I pay I'm not I'm not gonna pay that much for that you know

Mischa:

Sure sure sure Just real quick before we move on from that just wanna state for the record that we are not prejudiced against gypsies on on beer stories

Chad:

Gypsies

Mischa:

J You said J Oh it's a it's a that word now It's a racial slur

Chad:

Really I didn't know that

Mischa:

Obviously everyone appreciates value for money I'm just saying it's it's not a good word Chipped didn't know that

Chad:

something every day

Mischa:

There's just no no Leave it in

Chad:

did you Did you know that Did you know that Alex

Alex:

As soon as Misha started saying something I was like Oh that's probably gypsy I'd never thought about that before But I also don't say I never say like

Mischa:

who's standing up for the gypsies these days They're underrepresented in culture

Alex:

this is But back to the the beer stuff though Yeah please No I'm thinking about what you said and it's like I am I'm disappointed if I get a double IPA and it's not at your perceived threshold And then and then you can go and there's like uh a style guideline that says it has to be like this this amount But I remember a specific time where you know the paleo wasn't selling very well and like Oh okay maybe we'll change the recipe And somebody just chimed in and says Why don't we just call it a session ipa If you put IPA on it it'll sell really well And They were right

Chad:

They were right Okay See that's and that's why I think why they see IPA on so many beers cuz at the end of the day it does sell better And but then people complain Oh I don't don't all these IPAs on the board I'm like at the end of the day people go for those beers You know

Alex:

Sometimes I I personally like have a hard time like would you call this a session ipa a pale a an ipa They're all very similar Sometimes there's a lot of overlap

Chad:

It's all marketing I

Alex:

heard of a competition I'm bummed I can't remember the name of it right now but it was a I believe based in Canada and you would just send beers without anything said about them And in the first round all of the judges would taste the beers and say This is this category this is that category You didn't get to choose the the judges would say Hey this is what category it is This is a double ipa You're gonna be judged as a double ipa

Chad:

Did they then go back and compare to what the brewers had called it and said Oh wow we were way off That's not that at all or

Alex:

I'm not sure That'd be cool I I just heard about it and I guess went on living my way I forgot you know like Hey maybe I should send beers there I probably should have But I thought it was an interesting concept that the instead of picking a category cuz that was always so tough when I was sending beer to a competition like Oh should you put it in the the CRE mail Or is it actually bond Or would it ize better as this And maybe this category you know it's gonna have 400 entries and this other one would only have 30 and and there's like a whole like almost science to like going through and picking the categories And I was like man it'd be really nice to not have to do that

Chad:

Okay So I just that was the thing Gave me a lot of consternation Recently I was submitting my beer for the Subaru Awards next week and I was sending'em over Well last two years ago I sent peaches and cream which is it's not really New England not really an ipa It's right in between And I put in the New England category and I got reamed on my on the things like this isn't hazy enough This isn't this this isn't And I was like That sucks Because now I'm like so this year I was like super stressed about it except put all three of my beers and all three don't really fit perfectly a category except for maybe Molly but the rest of them not much And so I was sitting there like like really stressed about it I'm like I dunno what to do about this I'm like gonna screw myself you know like so Yeah

Alex:

Yeah I I felt the same thing many times I think this year I was going to register and we have an amber ale and then there just wasn't a category for ails and I was like Should I like put it into something else And I can't remember I think I ended up just not entering it I was like this is too hard

Chad:

like anxiety

Mischa:

Just as a as a casual beer nerd as I'm sure a lot of our listeners are like Can you guys talk a little bit about that from a brewer's perspective Like what's the difference between a and a session ipa What's the difference between an IPA and a and a hazy ipa or new one ipa Like what you said they're they're pretty similar but like obviously there are different beers How how do you differentiate a session IPA from an American payout

Alex:

I think Chad was talking about this a little bit earlier when you were saying blind pick Yeah You know like ipa but it's technically called a Payo right Yeah I think so But it's a very hoppy beer Like what is it Right around 6% alcohol Yeah I wouldn't know if if that beer was sitting in front of me I'd be like Oh probably ipa Or depending on the day I might call it a pale hill

Mischa:

Okay But from so forget about other people's beers from a production perspective from you guys going into the brewery I'm gonna make a pale L today or I'm gonna make a session IPA today What's the difference

Chad:

there are specific guidelines There are specific rules down to abb you know hop character or IBUs everything else But man yeah I don't know I mean those those do exist That's why they're they are very and they're and they keep having to add to the categories So these new crafters come out like in sub defining new styles

Alex:

Do you know the the guidelines of the styles Misha

Mischa:

I'm familiar with

Alex:

they exist

Mischa:

Yeah yeah yeah yeah

Alex:

Yeah I think they might just matter to brewers

Chad:

that's that's a

Mischa:

brewers and you're saying they don't really matter are you not

Chad:

I think same thing It was like I said earlier is like it's important to understand them and know them or at least at least a decent amount of knowledge about your about your craft You know whatever it is you're a painter you got to know but you have to know some of the definitions of you're a chef You need to know you know some some like the French styles Italian styles but then do whatever you want but you don't have to be an expert at it I've known chefs who are amazing chefs so the best chefs in the world don't necessarily know the you know molecular science beyond what they're doing but chefs who do

Alex:

Um I just I feel like when you brew what you want to brew and then you try and pick the style that you think it fits in to the most to call it that So that way it's like fair to somebody who could potentially buy it Right You know like you brew what you want and you get the flavors out there and then and then kind of look at the different styles and say like Hey there this flavor of beer if I call it a paleo they're gonna get what they're expecting when they say paleo But then there's some some that are just like so minute little differences that I don't think it really matters It's

Chad:

Yeah exactly And that's it I think it's more marketing than anything else But if you're going back to your first question saying also like when you go into brew what are we thinking I think there it's like usually I know like okay I'm gonna brew a stout I know like kind of the direction I'm gonna go but from an IPA I know a general direction I'm going you know it's like okay I'm gonna cook you know hamburger I'm not gonna cook a taco You know like you know kinda the direction you're going You know what I mean Like that's I think that's where it's helpful Like I know today I'm gonna bruise something along these But I wanna do some their stuff

Alex:

Yeah Yeah That makes total sense You go in and say Hey I'm I want like a dark beer something like a stout And then you start making your recipe What about this This would taste really good And at no point you say that's gonna make it outside the style guidelines so we're not gonna do that You know you start with an idea and then as that idea develops you what it developed and then at the end you recategorize it if you need to like Oh this turned into a double IPA when I went into brew an ipa Let's you know call with that

Mischa:

that makes sense to me If you if you at the end of the process you're like Oh this is More hoppy and a little higher alcohol than I was going for than I was expecting or like than I initially intended So yeah this is a double ipa not a not a regular standard ipa But you're saying you could go in and brew a beer and be like Is that a pale ale or is that a session ipa I don't know I'll just taste it when it's done And then whichever Is

Alex:

that am I I'm talking about designing recipe Not you brew a beer and most brewers out there you know what the beer is gonna

Mischa:

taste I would hope so You guys are kinda leading me down a

Chad:

No

Mischa:

here No Okay

Alex:

it's not what You don't know what's gonna come out It's like you start designing a recipe and then you're like What about a little bit of this And then a little bit of that And then before you know it you're outside of the style guidelines Okay So than that point you just say like Oh okay we're actually brewing a double IPA now cause of playing around with all these different hops and like man's a massive amount of hops And then we you know added some some more alt background to like keep that in check And now it's 8% and massively dry hop So it it'd be you know on that line 8% Is that a double IPA to you I actually I don't know the style off the guidelines

Chad:

eight plus I'm cool with I think it's a 8.1 or no 7.7 to Nine something I think it's a

Mischa:

double So that's So thank you That's a satisfying answer to that question Yeah

Chad:

Yeah

Mischa:

Still didn't answer my first question What's the difference between a pale and a session ipa

Chad:

Ooh Again there are specific guidelines I can't em off the top of my head but

Mischa:

Okay But that's So it's it's the a

Chad:

Yep

Mischa:

It's How do

Chad:

IBUs

Mischa:

of Styler hops that you would use Or is that not

Alex:

I would say that for me a session ipa less alcohol than an ipa Yeah But the same assertiveness of the hop Okay Whereas a pale ale is a lot of times less alcohol than an ipa but is also less a assertively hopped So if you have a very like a assertively hopped Pale oil maybe and it was in the lower alcohol range But I don't know these guidelines off I have to look them up every time

Chad:

Yeah Yeah

Mischa:

I'm not asking for specific numbers I I get that but that that explanation also makes sense to me Cuz when I describe when I'm doing beer training I describe a pale I say it's like an ipa but it's less bitter less assertive on the hops lower alcohol So then if you're saying the difference between a session IPA there is that it is less alcohol as well but the hop profile is still assertive enough to be called an ipa just session or

Chad:

Yeah But then again I mean like like you said like that if you have a palette that's more happy then it comes down to a fine line of okay this could be either direction It's pretty happy but it's a hop enough to be an ipa That's where people say Okay it's a marketing decision at that point Which one's gonna sell better

Mischa:

Sure I and and I I get that as well Okay Yeah I think we landed on an answer that that I'm satisfied with I hope our listeners are as well

Chad:

Yeah

Alex:

you're complete

Chad:

You'll check Check

Mischa:

Okay we got the thumbs up from our producer Niall

Alex:

it's very tricky because the guidelines like I said I don't know them off the top of my head but you might be talking about like a half a percent alcohol difference that would separate between like session IPA and the lower end of a pale oil

Mischa:

Sure And and when it comes to that I like get splitting hairs about that I think is kind of silly frankly So I I get that Like if it's on the borderline then yeah Call it whatever tastes more like or what you think it serves your customers more

Alex:

And most breweries put the alcohol content on the side of the package as

Mischa:

well Right And advertisement Right If you really care you can check for yourself That's why it bothers me to see a double ipa that's like Chad said like

Chad:

Yeah I I do say one thing is like it's really nice you're in a tap room though and they have all these things and like of course they know what they're doing They're trying to get you to buy the beer but they're also like giving a broad enough category to interest people or Hey I picked the style you want but then you have the staff who's if you want a nerd out and go deeper they should know it You know And like then like they talk brewer Oh yeah actually I did start the the P but now it's a session IPA and here's why And you can go deep deep deep That's cool You know that's that's the fun of it Like it's like you wanna know more there's always more You just pull back the layers But at the top level you gotta be careful with those categories that comes down to it can confuse or it can you know make people happy to be if they're getting what they want

Mischa:

For sure And as brewers people who work in the craft beer industry we want be inclusive and we wanna bring people in We don't wanna scare them off with weird stuff I'm like

Chad:

Well some breweries do there's there's there's some scary breweries out there Like there's some like you know very metal focused like which I think is cool Bras draws me in

Mischa:

me in Yeah yeah yeah yeah last time you guys were back in the States he brought me back a bunch of beers Some of them were from true school and like yeah the marketing it's all like heavy metal beers were amazing Yeah Yeah So good and that was the thing was like I other than the the actual label design I don't know anything about the marketing or the branding or anything I just tried the beers

Chad:

Actually it's funny though cause I was thinking about and made the there's that brewery Martin house so I was in Texas All the breweries there like German They say two things One is like German you know German style breweries Traditional German style beers which is me a big turnoff cause just sick of those tiles of beer But it's a huge thing in Texas like they want German style beers traditional And then there's Martin House which is like in Fort Worth And all they do is completely screw with But yeah So Martin House they lean into the most like ridiculous They got criticized in the beginning cuz they were like Let's play around in styles let's do ranch dressing in a beer And they purpose said Fuck the rules and bubblegum and beer They're doing all this crazy stuff And people started being like You take yourself seriously They're actually really good brewers

Alex:

it's not just marketing Like they they're very metal Like you walk in and it is metal turned all the way up super dark like very on point And then their beers are also amazing So what is like this mix like um you find people that are going there cuz they want this awesome craft beer and then getting exposed to like a cool metal bar And then you have people that love going to metal bars and they're like now they're drinking good craft beer So

Mischa:

it's

Alex:

cool to see that crossover

Mischa:

That's awesome

Chad:

It's cool that they're themselves I think that's the biggest thing with Brewer is like whether it's styles or names or product over do what you love doing and share that and you're gonna find people dig it you

Mischa:

know Yeah Be true to yourself Yeah I like that

Chad:

Yeah

Mischa:

Chad are there any breweries back in the states that are like doing wild shit with styles that caught your eye last time you were back home

Chad:

home Yeah so I was in Texas mostly which After coming from California I'm very and I'm partial you know West Coast style ip IPAs everything else you know Russian River LA blah blah blah And then I went to Texas and I was saying like all the breweries are very German focused where German style brews which are traditional but German beers they don't mean Gozo or Berlin advisors I mean like they're talking about like you know uh not even like interesting stuff just basically German basic beers like lagers and everything else I'm like and Cole she might find once in a while but most of it's like pretty by the book And I was like I found that boring and not interesting So Martin House was like one of the ones I found in Texas that was doing something wildly different They've done ranch flavored beer buffalo soft flavored beer I mean and at first because people criticize them said Oh these guys just went to weirdos How dare they do this with our beer styles How dare they You Fuck with the Heska boat And

Mischa:

Ryan he

Chad:

Heska boat but then like they're like they just leaned into it They're like Hey we're good brewers And they make they make great classic styles of beer too but they leaned into it more They said Let's how ridiculous can we get And they listen went Even their marketing on Facebook or Instagram is ridiculous They're like because people kept criticizing like What do you get your naming conventions from What's your styles And they're like we just randomly watch Adam Sandler movies and just randomly pick names from it Like that was their one today I was like That's great Like and they've been and they're making people laugh and having a great time and they're making some really phenomenal beer you know So

Mischa:

what was the one you brought back The Pickle

Chad:

Oh yeah The Pickle They have a Pickle Goza which is really good Oh that's really good Yeah they've had some misses I mean I tried something that was like actually the dead of one that I liked a lot was a blue Coconut Creel which was and it was sour Oh so good Did we try that together No Oh man It was one of my favorites But the uh they've had a couple that I was like Yeah okay You know

Mischa:

I heard I heard the

Chad:

sauce flavor one was not great

Mischa:

Right But any anybody's that's pushing boundaries and like and doing wild experimental shit it's not all gonna work Yeah exactly It's probably

Chad:

I

Mischa:

if anybody has a 100% success rate on on every beer that they've had to come in another brewery

Chad:

going back

Mischa:

for mixtape

Chad:

Yeah I about to say except Pastor Street No mistakes Not one

Alex:

Going back to like the the naming too I was uh visiting a family back in the United States and I like went to the store to like pick up some drinks and came back I was like Ah Bethany like I got some ranch water like you want some ranch water And she's like looking at me like I'm just crazy And she's thinking like ranch dressing Yeah because it's like like a ranch flavored beer And then

Chad:

I

Alex:

that up that you said they had like a ranch flavored

Chad:

They did They did a ranch A ranch Blue cheese and buffalo sauce And they purposely did it They're like No we're And I heard the ranch one was good but not ranch water which is a cocktail basically

Alex:

Yeah Yeah But like in the naming of it she was like thinking like what This sounds ranch water that sounds uh not not not so delicious

Chad:

as a ranch dressing addict I would definitely drink that even if it was just a bucket of ranch It's disgusting

Mischa:

I'm

Chad:

I may or may not have done that with the Hidden Valley ranches bottle back in the day Just

Mischa:

Tell me you're American without telling me you're American

Chad:

the It's the the one that's not with ranch

Mischa:

dressing the cocktail Chad have you you about ranch water Well let tell you insider joke Yeah Sorry To our listeners that Chad came back from Texas and o he would talk about his ranch water all the time

Chad:

all day every day

Mischa:

the point where we had to start telling him Yeah

Chad:

about it

Mischa:

us 18 times already

Chad:

It's tequila soda water topo Chico preferably uh lime juice and salted

Mischa:

Nobody asked

Chad:

See

Mischa:

so one of the questions I did have that I really wanted to ask both of you guys is there a beer style that you really really love to make that's not like your favorite to drink

Alex:

Half of Eisen

Mischa:

Sorry You like making half of eons but it's not your favorite style drink Is that what you're saying Okay so this is what I'm curious about is What is it about the brewing process of making Eve that makes it an interesting beer for you to make

Alex:

the yeast

Mischa:

Okay

Alex:

Yeah it's just it's an interesting style of yeast and you have to get this this bold flavor out of the yeast So like the pitching rates and the temperatures are very important and slight adjustments to that can change the the flavor profile of it quite a bit And I um I really like the uh you know the biochemistry side and the The yeast side of it So it's fun for me thinking about designing a recipe for that to like optimize some of the different levels of flavor And then it's also like fun to think about how to keep that consistent So I I like from a technical standpoint the the process of thinking about that style up here but I just I really don't like the flavor

Chad:

I actually agree with you on that one too I've never made a have advice yet cause it does seem complicated and I'm lazy But like it I mean it's like it is an interesting style but it also has really good aromas when you're like I like brewing in general I enjoy the smells I love like when you're It's like cooking it just smells so good Sounds like you get done cooking you just don't want to eat the food So that smells like brewing sometimes I'm like man this is fun But I'm then I'll be like Yeah whatever I just can pitch these and go home I'm tired you knows Like the last thing I wanna do you know six hours of brewing you're like ugh I'm so tired of cleaning and cooking and ugh

Mischa:

So Chad maybe I can ask you the opposite question Is there a beer style that you love to drink that you're like that's a real son of a bitch to fucking make

Chad:

I mean unless experienced Alex for sure in brewing but like I don't know No I don't know man I don't know Like I mean yeah I mean I wanna make sours and I'm for some reason I've only dabbled cause I'm really nervous about it Cuz you can screw em up really bad quickly And I I love'em so much but I feel like I'm just don't know like still terrified of making a proper mixed culture sour haven't done yet It's like I just think I'm gonna screw up everything and I'm just like terrified

Mischa:

sounds like sounds like a perfect idea for the first

Chad:

eh let's do it let's do it I I mean that's one of my favorite styles of beer in the world but I just I feel like it's like you know there's the ma there's the like different levels of brewers Oh the guys can perfect a mixed culture sour or whatever Ugh Or or a wild ferment or a spontaneous fermentation sour

Mischa:

I'm like

Chad:

those guys are dope And they're like Oh well you know hands hats off You know

Mischa:

Yeah I don't want to get ahead of my skis and like talk about mixed culture Wild men Cause obviously it's beyond me I've I've had them You're fucking

Alex:

I think we should name the beer We tried really hard not to mess this up

Mischa:

Alex thinks the name of the beer should be We tried really hard not to mess this up Mixed culture sour I I love really ridiculously

Chad:

long names for beers They're like Why did they name this beer This beer Like

Mischa:

that I do too Sometimes Sometimes it's a little like so for for us obviously like our beers are named after the act of ingredient in the style Like it and it's it's not the funnest you know like that's one thing that I sometimes but then it would be off brand for us to come out with a God water craft longer what was the what was the Dumb and Dumber one that I mean the can of

Chad:

oh Yeah Look our pet's heads are falling off

Mischa:

What

Chad:

great

Mischa:

is that for a beer But

Chad:

love it I love it Again as And that's Martin house They're like like and like what style of beer Like oh I

Mischa:

I idea

Chad:

why

Mischa:

call

Chad:

Man we were having this conversation The Brewer one day and just that was what I called it

Mischa:

that's one of the funniest things in the history of movies Oh that's so But

Chad:

naming conventions for beers like that's the thing too like I've seen a lot of breweries like Palos IPAs because hey I wanna just tell my customers what it is Yeah And then yeah someone like me is like I'm just gonna call it whatever peaches and cream and no peaches and no cream which really pisses people off

Alex:

How do you get started on that process Like you've got the beer and then you're like what am I gonna name this Or does it start with like a name Is it like name before you you get going on the recipe or is it a recipe and then a name

Chad:

mix tape The rule is it has to do something with music and that can be as broad as I mean it can be anything I don't care Music is so varied Like you do whatever you want That's the only rule As long as like brand guideline I'm like as long as it has something to do with music convince me You know especially now the company's starting I'm a few new people coming on James and Sean and they're like Okay I know this is gonna take its life of its own And I'm like great As long as we just stick to the has to have something to do with music that's pretty wild so usually I start off I write the recipe and I'm like Okay I'm gonna call it this Ah I've been listen Usually I'll be listening to a song like This is Perfect you know or or if I'm gonna make a giant stout that I wanna make some day it's you know it's gonna be like a crazy metal name of course Big black imperial stout But then honestly like what usually happens is usually when I take that first sip and I'll be like Oh no no no that name was completely wrong I know what this needs to be

Alex:

no I think that's really cool that like you would name the beer after like a song that you were listening to when you were like writing the recipe There was a distillery in Colorado that like every um bottle would have like you know like a handwritten thing on it and it would be like the song

Chad:

Oh yeah

Alex:

bottling crew was

Chad:

Yeah

Alex:

out I was like That's

Chad:

I figure which maybe it's the same brewery There's one brewery that actually plays music to their beer Cause it's like a living thing I plants like so that it actually makes they believe it makes beer better and and they actually play like one of em actually wraps like speakers around the fermenter I was reading about this and I was like I think that's actually one of the inspirations back in the day I was like Oh I know I'm doing my brewery so I doing music you know And

Mischa:

some fucking hippie bullshit

Chad:

absolutely Or some yeah super as super stoners Yeah I mean who knows Like they say plants get way happier when you sing to'em So I don't sing to my beer Okay Just be clear

Mischa:

I sleep with

Chad:

my

Mischa:

Chad can you hear your beer

Chad:

No

Mischa:

so my next question I think is a bit of a leading question for all three of us to talk about a certain style of beer that we all love But is there any styles of beer that you think is underrepresented or underappreciated in the current Vietnamese craft beer market

Chad:

I mean obviously Sours but it's it's hard to it's a niche of a niche of a Anish Anish It's it's hard

Mischa:

sour beers

Chad:

If they sold Absolutely You know I mean at some point yeah stay authentic yourself but also you know nobody's gonna drink your double sour you know crazy pickle juice beer Yet maybe in five years once you've convinced enough drinkers but you know

Alex:

yeah I would definitely agree with sours And then I also think that lag Hmm actually and I think it's because mainstream beer has been so popular for so long that when craft breweries are doing laggers like there isn't enough flavor differentiation or differentiation To really you know uh maybe justify paying this higher price point or um or something along those lines But I know like in the United States you know like bloggers weren't like super popular in craft beer for a while but then they really came back in a strong way when there's like you know brewers love making'em cuz they're difficult And then like people were really appreciating like the nuance and like the the subtle different flavors of these styles So I think that um yeah definitely like sours would be the first thing that pops into my mind And then maybe second would be Logger

Chad:

it's funny cuz the next big mixed state production beer will be a logger which is something I said I would never be really interested in doing But uh it's that I'm like I really want a specific style of logger I'm not a big logger fan but I'm like there's a thing I want and that's the next beer I'm working on Like with with James and Sean is like this beer I won't say too much more about it cause like still in development on it but it's not nothing secret It's just like I wanna get it right I would like somebody that's like you know not not I don't want a boring Heineken or whatever because like those guys are ma in some ways their master's what they do it's per it's always consistent you know And not a big fan but like Having had some really awesome craft loggers or pilsners they they're full of flavor and bread and yeah I would like to have that you know

Alex:

That's awesome You're you're filling the gap

Chad:

Well you know actually all the beers I've ever made are beers that I didn't necessarily want to make They're all like challenging myself Like they're not So things I I was like Okay I'm gonna challenge this You know so No

Alex:

that that's really interesting Like why why do you think that that is something that helps you get inspiration Like on

Chad:

challenge Yeah challenge I like challenges I'm like like the stout Molly like I I light stouts are not I like big big stouts but I love Guinness but everything else I'm like light stout Generally I'm just it's okay you know I'll enjoy them but it's not so it's like can I make a full flavored stout super light the lowest ABB I can possibly think of And I was like I just sat there for days trying to work that recipe out And it was like the most complex beer I've ever made Like eight eight malts Like it was like why am I doing this you know for this tiny little beer But it's like challenge you know

Mischa:

So instead of being true to yourself

Chad:

No but that is me though It's like challenging myself is part of who I am and I like trying you know new things So yeah tried to catch me up there I saw it coming

Mischa:

I was like You gonna lead him right down the path to this Gotcha question Yeah

Chad:

you've done that to

Mischa:

ever Chad It's the only reason I want it to you on the podcast so that we get you on record

Chad:

it happens a lot I'm not gonna lie I get too excited too easily

Alex:

No I think that's really cool And like the the challenge I think comes through um you know maybe to um you know beer fans as well you know kind of like challenging like hey this is low alcohol but it can also have this much flavor It's I think it comes full circle in that respect and yeah it's an awesome beer

Chad:

Thanks man Thanks

Mischa:

so to your point Alex about loggers I think I think I think one of the things I've seen here that's maybe tripped a few breweries up is like trying to go on what's popular in the states right now Whereas like this is its own craft beer community and like there are steps involved So like you can't just skip major steps and expect you know sours and loggers to be popular now here just because they're popular in the states Cuz obviously craft beer started so much earlier back there there was so many more iterations and different styles and you know it's like it's a fucking ladder or a or a staircase whatever Like you gotta build it up from the foundation You can't just like oh oh they like IPAs then hey look at these fucking wild fer men and sours and like I want more welcomes I fucking love them But yeah and I and I agree with what both of you guys are saying I think loggers and sours will be popular here eventually I just think and we should keep pushing the envelope and like trying to normalize sour beers Absolutely That's the reason I ask the question I wanna talk about sour beers I love them I wish more people were making them and I wish they were more widely available But also I understand that they're not going to be until they're more popular with

Chad:

Once the craft beer segment grows overall you'll have more of a niche that you can slice of that pie You know like don't stop making the dragon fruit goes up please ever You stop selling completely I'll be the one guy be like Gimme a cake Like keep it going Its And it needs to be here cuz eventually it'll get traction I mean of grain traction

Alex:

I agree

Mischa:

a hundred percent

Alex:

I've thought about that quite a bit You know and I'll look back to like what styles Were like the first popular craft beer styles in the United States And then what was popular after that you know but now hearing you say it I'm like do steps matter

Chad:

Mm

Alex:

I I'm actually questioning that Like should should every place that you know starts getting into craft beer go through those same like same steps or could you skip a few And I was thinking about the way that I personally like to design recipes and it's just by listening to um you know guests and like our team and like what sort of flavors you know And um that's you know where where I try and get the ideas Cuz a lot of times I'll like I want it taste like this or this Or they'll say like I think we should do a cider And I'm like we're not gonna do a cider But why do you like that flavor Maybe that's something we can get into a beer

Mischa:

Yeah No I mean I I agree fundamentally Steps don't matter And that if we can skip a few fucking I don't think we need to I don't think we need to have a brown a phase in Saigon to legitimize what we're doing here in craft beer

Chad:

Awesome But yeah It's

Alex:

question though I hadn't thought about it in that way until you asked it

Mischa:

yeah no I just I just I do think that some breweries here can get ahead of themselves a little bit us included with some of these styles that you know maybe the public's just not ready for yet or isn't really asking for Like that's that's to your point like talking to Team talking to our clients customers Talking to the guests at our tap room Like what do you guys want have What do you what do you wanna try next What Like which styles of ours do you like Which ones you like more of in a slightly different way Yeah Like we don't need to hit all the brown a port And it was like no let's let's talk to people and see what they want and give it to them And then also like you said you know we're not gonna do a cider but maybe we can give you something that would satisfy the cravings that you're having for a cider

Chad:

Mm-hmm

Alex:

Yeah And it's not like anybody's gonna be like Hey stop what you're doing We have like three more years before we get to New England IPA

Chad:

that's it too though It's like I remember I started in Thailand and we brought IPAs into Thailand I was like You guys should have started with a lot craft lagger I said No we shouldn't have Like well that's what people know That's what they wanna drink I'm like that's what they know they wanna drink because they haven't tried this yet So there's a bit of that You gotta be like you gotta be the music makers you know You gotta be to be like you just haven't tried this yet Put it in your hands Taste it Maybe sours will be the first thing in some country that's just finding crap You're like that's their favorite style It doesn't have to follow the path of you know loggers PS blah blah blah blah blah All the way up to sours It can just jump right in You know Who knows But I mean there is a a pallet thing too you gotta be careful with but they're also it's a fine line I think listening to customers is always that fine line of like they're saying this cause they know they actually haven't tried something that would challenge their perception of what they might love you know

Alex:

Yeah And you're you're working with beer va I think you mentioned that in the intro Right and you guys uh you know sell beer in Thailand before you guys were doing that was there was craft beer popular in Thailand or

Chad:

We were the first craft ipa We were the second craft beer distributor arrive in ti most of Southeast Asia I think is my understanding But in Thailand specifically we like within a day of being the first craft beer importers And then yeah You know you try to bring in styles like oh everyone's gonna be we thought same thing S start Ambers we're gonna start with brown ls Easy drinking People just jumped around to IPAs pretty much now in between they were coming from Hogar Hogar was like a massive thing there I think it's why the reason we had success cause they were coming with this beer that people paid a lot for was a new style of beer They didn't know what they liked before You know big old wheat German beer Okay awesome Then we had chain bigger chain bigger from just shoots and that was the gateway It's right in between an IPA and a wheat and everyone's just like I love this but also with this other thing And then IPAs just took off So

Alex:

do you think it's a similar in Vietnam

Chad:

it's Different Because you guys led the charge of actually brewing local craft beer and doing like like PS and IPAs and different styles and like I think it's it's a different game here a little bit for sure I still haven't figured it out

Alex:

I mean yeah yeah yeah Like importing versus brewing but I mean just in

Chad:

styles Yeah I mean I still think IPAs I mean at the end of the day it's it's it's different enough to make warrant that price tag They go and it's not he must say I don't like bitter I'm like Yeah but it's not bitter It's happy You know I always try to learn the word for bitter in every language in every country Cause I'm like when I'm doing a tasting I'm like not bitter not calm in Thailand No no no That's not right It's hop Like this is a new thing Just you'll get used to it Maybe you won't Maybe I'll hate it forever but most of the drinkers will end up liking it a bit more yeah

Mischa:

our passion fruit we you know sour from the fruit but whenever sour whenever a Vietnamese person says sour to me like no no It's tart

Chad:

Yes

Mischa:

Yeah

Chad:

those words aren't aren't necessarily pot good words for taste sour bitter those things like there's like

Mischa:

There are a lot of people have a negative

Chad:

But those flavors are in all the food and there's a lot of drinks have it and They love it They don't usually use those words for it It's Yeah exactly But yeah I think here I think I mean I don't know you guys have more data than I do for sure on what people prefer but I think IPAs are still pretty pretty wild

Mischa:

Yeah Because

Chad:

it's I think something we think craft They don't want to pay triple quad price for another logo that tastes a Heineken

Mischa:

Yeah a hundred percent So we did some we did some market research with some like uh focus groups All Vietnamese people who identified as craft beer drinkers And the first thing they did was feedback on just literally pouring a beer in a glass and looking at the glass before tasting it before smelling

Chad:

That's cool Yeah Yeah

Mischa:

And a lot of'em are like Oh those yellow ones Those aren't even craft beer Like if it didn't have a darker color they're like That's not

Chad:

crafted Uh That's in That's interesting Like I'm not gonna waste my time with that no no But these are really awesome beers

Mischa:

Not craft But yeah no a lot of people a lot of people

Chad:

flavor profile or as like perception That's I get that too I don't like craper What do you mean Oh it's too happy I'm okay See there's a lot more to that story

Mischa:

No and and yeah So much of that about is so much about that is building context and educating people and like Yeah Like anybody who's like I used to get it back in Toronto worked at this brew pub and I'd overhear people who thought they were like the experts of the group They're all bringing the people to their to the tap room for the first time Like yeah I only like Ailes It's like that's a dumb thing to say cuz like loggers can be so like a doble box and a you know a Heineken how can you even say that they're the same style of beer They're both loggers but like they're so wildly different Like to say that Oh I hate loggers It's like you're dumb like You just haven't found a logger that you that you like yet Like and I I shouldn't say dumb just Sophisticated enough to know what but like I don't I literally had a guy I overheard he was talking about our our stock ale which is a nice light a he's like Yeah you know it's a nice light a it's kinda like a lager the fuck does that even mean It's wrong of me to criticize people for saying that like to say that they're stupid for not like saying I don't like loggers because obviously loggers a style that's like so heavily defined by light local loggers Like it's just so much of the overall consumption that I I can understand why uh a casual beer drinker would be like Fuck loggers I don't like'em Like they're you know they're trying to plant their flag in the sand that they're real drinkers real ale all that

Chad:

I do feel triggered though I remember one time on Facebook I said something like that Joking I was like I don't like loggers Like ja shut up Like oh shit Was it me You're talking right now

Mischa:

that Damn it I don't remember seeing you say that but it sounds like it might be

Chad:

Oh might have been you dummy

Mischa:

I would never

Chad:

Never never

Alex:

To me that seems like uh what we were talking about earlier It's gains popularity then it d diversifies and then you've got all these different categories as a logger but I'm not sure if this is correct but probably it started with like this one thing was lager and then like oh well well this is different now You got dark loggers and you got different types of dark loggers and the same thing with ipa You've got this thing's okay this is an IPA and now we're doing all these things that actually taste pretty different and have like a lot of different qualities So let's start building more categories within IPA and like they're even kinda like tiered at this point you know into like different genres of IPA that have like subgenres within that

Chad:

And this is why it relates back to music You have rock you have shoe gay you have post new wave grunge cor I mean there's who knows whatever styles like everyone keeps redefining it It's fun but it's like who It's also the best part about the freedom of like creativity's Like keep going I mean this thing's not gonna stop You know craft beer the amount of yeast we find in every year is like holy crap engineering new yeasts Like it's gonna continue to change and evolve and who knows you know It's cool

Mischa:

Let's make some new beer styles

Alex:

that is how styles are created I remember like one of the first years it was like there was like a urban spice category and then for the first time they were like Okay pumpkin deers will be a category And then for the first time chocolate beers will be a category And it used to all just and this is like during the time that I've been brewing beer so like pretty recently you know and now it just seems standard Like yeah pumpkin beer is like a category of beer or like chocolate beers is a category but it it wasn't

Chad:

It's such a

Mischa:

a very short time ago

Alex:

Yeah

Chad:

that people make memes make fun of it Asals become so

Mischa:

a yeah I mean to that like in 1980 grunge music didn't exist Exactly Like it's it's a style of it's a sub genre of rock that came out because you know enough bands from this area and other areas like we're similar enough It was like we need new word for these guys This is new And like this is not hair metal this is not rock It's not exactly punk but it's like kind of punk and grunge

Chad:

They look really grungy Look at their dirtiest shirts that flannel like they're but they're beat up converse and stuff

Mischa:

and long hair These grunge

Chad:

That's probably outside

Mischa:

I see like like

Chad:

what Casey case Oh the

Mischa:

run you looking

Chad:

motherfuckers calling a grunge Just own it Just bite into it Be like

Mischa:

Yeah that's

Chad:

US

Alex:

these assholes made their IPA 9% alcohol

Chad:

we're

Mischa:

It's not

Chad:

Imperial

Mischa:

It's too big It's almost like twice

Chad:

Hazes I mean those are criticized I remember being like Aw those are gonna be terrible And then like love them You know You know that was like really good words And that's super recent too and it's become like the leading one of the leading styles around ever I was criticized by every brewer I remember people making fun of it for days Like like I've heard Bruce I'll never make that Like next time I come back I'm like Are 80% of your beers now Hazes I make them right Oh right right right right Cool

Mischa:

So um

Alex:

so when it came out you didn't you didn't believe in it And it sounds like and you were like this is gonna be something that is temporary and then it just goes away It's a fad but it didn't go away

Chad:

And I believe brt IPAs were here to stay

Alex:

so

Chad:

I thought that was gonna be a

Alex:

category but do you still feel the same way Do you still feel like they're gonna go away or do you think

Chad:

No

Alex:

so popular that it's just there for

Chad:

Yeah I mean it's it's history's written I think it's like it's there It's it's a part of the it's part of the landscape you know which is awesome Just keeps growing It's my favorite thing about craft beer It's like I always tell people I do a beer tasting or a beer dinner or anything and watch all these people say Don't like beer They do love beer All these different opinions And I'm like Yeah but when you came into here you said you don't like beer

Mischa:

And they're

Chad:

like Yeah And then you do the vote of like which one's your favorite beer And every hand goes up for different beers I'm like That's the beauty of

Mischa:

crafter Yeah yeah yeah

Chad:

variety of flavor you weren't privy to before And it's

Mischa:

Our uh Our Our whole distributor in Hong Kong Awesome dudes but they're wine distributors mostly They had a they had one craft beer before us and they they came in took us on and the guy by his own admission Next to nothing about craft beer when he started working with us And then a year later I'm gonna Hong Kong to visit him and I'm like on sales calls with him and he's talking like he's the expert of craft beer Like he's like picking apart other people's beers Chad's Come on bud

Chad:

it

Alex:

always one of my favorite things to to hear especially being here in Vietnam where there's a lot of people who have never had craft beer before It's still very early and you get people come in and they'll taste it and like This isn't beer

Chad:

Yes yes

Alex:

isn't beer This is something

Chad:

Yeah Yeah People ask why like cuz I I never wanted to do sales in my life I thought I'm horrible at cells But whenever I would talk about craft beer people like why aren't you working in beer I was like Oh I mean I'd like to make it but I would I would hate cells and I don't like sales people I don't like selling It's I think like but every time you crappy is so passionate I'm like Yeah but I don't even like beer Like will you like craft beer I'm like Yes But That's why like this day I still get super excited I hear talk hearing us talk I get I still get super excited about it It's like like cuz it it blew my mind at the time Like I was like Whoa this it'll put up my eyes All these different flavors I couldn't even believe I didn't get to experience before And that for so long the world was so boring with it Like whoa we were missing out on all these awesome experiences you know And I I dunno I still super excited about it

Mischa:

right So that's the I think the first the first IPA I had was probably at at the Brew Pub I worked at Mill Street in Toronto Ontario And it was a pretty bitter ipa It was it was called Tank House ipa like they do more kind of hazy stuff like Juicy Hobby now but like at the time the Tanks IPA was and super bitter But I just I liked it you know like I got into it And then the there was a stock gal as well which I mentioned earlier is like the lighter fruitier one And I always used to tell my my customers when they came in like Oh yeah Stock Hill's great for like when you first wake up in the morning you want something light and easy drinking Then the tanks just like after a hard day's work I've earned this beer It's bitter It's awesome So yeah like you

Chad:

when you first

Mischa:

that's the joke Somebody that got them every time I did have one other question I did wanna ask both of you guys specifically as brewers What's for you Like what's the difference between sitting and drinking a beer that you've made and sitting and drinking a beer that someone else has made Like is there are you thinking different things like just inside your own head like dissecting the the results of the beer that you made Whereas with someone else's beer you can just of casually enjoy it or you just for you like beer's beer

Alex:

it It's just beer

Mischa:

Okay I feel like Chad's answer's gonna be very different

Chad:

it's gonna be five hours long It's gonna go in different directions We're not gonna get an answer No no When I my own beer I get really anxious every time I open a can Honestly every single one I'm like I'm just maybe not been doing it long That's where I get like I still get anxiety every time I see someone drink my beer I like I don't care But I'm also like anxiously watching every muscle in their face Like are they enjoying it or not They're probably not enjoying it Oh fuck that batch I remember I didn't I you know bred the temperature got off a minute or something you know who knows I start overthinking it like it I don't enjoy it I've gotten more confidence Time goes on you just whatever relax more and more and more But in the beginning I was just like shaky hand and like you know like to this day that every time I drink any of my beers I'm like Damnit I messed that up And I always people always stop me Chad just shut up by your own Cause then you're gonna criticize it Just

Mischa:

I've told you that You're you're definitely over critical of your own beards You make really good beers man

Chad:

thanks man But I mean like you know you always from batch to batch Like Oh I should've

Mischa:

fix that Right

Chad:

That's not right Like why is it like this You know But other people be I enjoy more

Mischa:

Yeah So for me it's with with export when I see our beers in other countries and like a friend is going or whatever It's like sending your kids away to college You know like you're super

Chad:

it gonna be handled

Mischa:

but the further away they get the more nervous you get And every time I see like someone from Saigon going Hong Kong or Malaysia wherever trying to pass I'm like How does it taste Is it okay How does it taste

Chad:

That kid

Mischa:

Did a lot of

Chad:

drugs Okay Do not

Mischa:

to

Chad:

It's not my fault

Mischa:

in fact he might have been adopted fucking so Chad on every podcast we close off with a little fact or fiction So I've prepared some statements about you So these these are statements About you or about the beer industry in general and you just have to say factor fiction for all of them factor fiction Beer VA brought the first craft beers to Vietnam before the local craft beer boom Started

Chad:

actually fact ish We didn't bring it Someone flew to Thailand and brought it in So Tim from Beer Craft and fly and pick ice coolers before I was Really

Mischa:

Tim Hn carried some beers So

Chad:

a bunch No Nobody started See there's their That's a lot Of course No no freaking way I would No one knows Credit

Mischa:

Thanks Chad Uh fact or fiction brewers sometimes steal recipes from other brewers

Chad:

Fact I guess I mean why not I mean my brewers post their breweries brewers and say brew this

Mischa:

So

Alex:

yeah that one seems difficult to prove unless like you've done it And then you can say like fact

Chad:

I mean I Yeah yeah I hacked Alex's computer and I'm constantly distilling

Mischa:

at this moment downloading like that's a whole rabbit hole that we could go down The idea of posting recipes on your cause like I've known some people some brewers who are like really proprietary about every little thing But then like when I'm at these brewers conferences and I'm with brewers who everyone really respects and like and looks up to they're the most easy going Like they'll talk about any like you know someone's like Oh how did you get that And that And it's like oh you know this They're not proprietary at all They're like the most open sharing welcome Like just shooting the shit with other brewers and like being awesome dudes and like Hey how did you do

Chad:

do that Yeah

Mischa:

of what they did They wanna

Chad:

exactly And I think sharing knowledge is key Like you don't talk a chef's like Oh you can't know how I mean the best chefs in the world put the recipes online and go Go for it Make it better than me I want eat it Like there's a brewery now in a San Francisco called called Bottle and they're doing like they were my favorite brewery when I was back in the United States And they literally put their complete brewing schedule on their can like the temperature fermentation the time everything down to the most minute That's super cool I was like saving their Labels So I'm like This beer's amazing I I wanna make this beer You

Mischa:

Yeah Yeah So

Chad:

the answer's like Do you steal it No But they said I can have it Basically Go for it You

Mischa:

Steal like an artist Love it Chad Factor fiction You have over 100 tattoos

Chad:

fiction Much

Mischa:

Much less I don't know I think I just made that number up

Chad:

cool

Mischa:

But I have a lot Fair factor Fiction IPA is the coolest style of beer ever

Chad:

Fiction

Mischa:

anything you wanna say about that or we're good

Chad:

I think we said

Mischa:

it Okay Yeah Yeah which brings us to our final factor fiction The peaches and cream beer are contains neither peaches nor cream

Chad:

That is facts And I will add one thing to that So we're making a new a new we're releasing a new product next week for mix tape And it's a it's a tea based seltzer is tea green tea Lotus And it's like you know some lemon and some sugar trying to slightly some really light And I'm really excited about it's called Par T My daughter came up with that name p a r t e A And the team the day was like Chad does it actually have tea in I'm like Yes Like okay thank God And I was like Why Cause like we're sick and tired of representing like

Mischa:

state beers that

Chad:

have California suns a big orange slice on the front You remove the orange slice cuz you said the hops could carry the beer And I was like they're like but we also have to There's no orange Peaches and cream No peaches and cream I'm like sorry So like does par t actually have tea And they drank it Like this is very subtle tea I'm like Yes Can we put a disclaimer on there I'm like No No no So yes no

Mischa:

no

Chad:

peaches no cream

Alex:

you have so many choices with the song

Chad:

I know

Mischa:

Does it

Alex:

Has it has it been decided yet The song

Chad:

What T Oh yeah Oh I'm thinking like I'm thinking like party people in the house tonight You know

Mischa:

Jesus Christ Chad

Alex:

I was thinking

Chad:

I knew you were gonna hate it

Alex:

in the

Mischa:

usa

Chad:

or

Mischa:

gotta fight for your right

Chad:

Andrew Wk Andrew Wk So if we release Part T dark we're gonna release a dark version Cause the team said we want Cause this says green tea I'm gonna call it Party Hard It's Andrew W Wk like with blood down face in the front of the can That'd be dope Yep

Mischa:

does the does the Molly have Molly in it

Chad:

what's Molly Everything that I someone once told me Chad like you know Generally like okay you're pretty clean in some ways Like I don't try not to offend usually but like you have just the right amount of deviousness So if you look at all of my cans and all the beers Easter eggs So Molly is gonna be sold by the gram in the tap room

Mischa:

I would say the the peaches and cream marketing is not exactly subtle it's subtle A cute peach with

Chad:

cream on top What are you talking about 6.9% ABB No Easter egg there at all

Mischa:

all Look it up

Chad:

I think that's fun though It makes me like there's always that extra like the styles there's always a little more to the story you know like keep digging You know

Mischa:

Sure Chad is there anything you wanna Anything you want to talk about before we get going

Chad:

No thanks guys for having on having me on Yeah it's good times Thanks for basically kicking off the craft beer thing in Vietnam and so that I can be here to pass street You guys I will

Mischa:

I just like to drink a lot of

Chad:

Yeah I know So do I But

Alex:

I'm just excited for this Paree hard Seltzer It's amazing It's spot on

Mischa:

Is there anything that inspired that particular beverage

Chad:

I just I dunno I feel there's a lot of things I've been trying to

Mischa:

on

Chad:

Cell Yeah Well I

Mischa:

Sorry that was that was party water I had to redefine it So

Chad:

I dunno I want to be boring I do something more flavored

Alex:

Maybe that's what we could do We could do branch water but it could just be like the dressing in water Yeah

Mischa:

We need to take this offline before people steal Steal our ideas Oh my God Let's Steal our ideas Alex anything else You good

Alex:

I'm good

Mischa:

All right So this has been beer stories Thank you to our guest Chad Mitchell Thanks to our producer Niall Mackay check out his podcast as well Thanks to Lewis Wright for our theme music Thanks as always to my Alex Violet and thank you for listening